Cuppa Connections Episode 7: A Hidden Gem in the High Country

What an impressive community that Boone, North  Carolina has up in the High Country, and we have the chance to talk with  Boone native and coffee and donut shop owner, Josiah Davis.

This episodeis filled with great stories from beginning to end about dreams, discoveries, and a whole lot more.

Transcript

Portia: 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to Cuppa Connections. I'm Portia, and we're here coming to you from our virtual cafe, Better with a Cup of Coffee. We are savoring relationships with coffee lovers around the world and sharing their experiences that have been better with a cup of coffee. The reason why I wanted to do the interview was because, I was interested in what the Boone North Carolina coffee culture was about. I haven't been to Boone in decades, since I was a little girl. My parents and I would go to the grandfathers mountain, and we would stay in Boone a lot. So this time my wife and I, we were going to a wedding. So I decided, okay, let me look up some coffee shops. And I found one, and then I said, okay, the Local Lion, this sounds kind of cool. So I looked on the about us. Of course, I'm reading about the owners and the shop, and so forth. Found some good information. But what got me was how the Local Lion acquired their name, which I will let our featured guests talk about. So I wanted to talk to someone who was born and bred in Boone, and to talk to us about the coffee culture, about the culture of Boone, because Boone is a tight knit community So, that's why I wanted to do an episode about this wonderful owner, his coffee shop, what he's doing in the community. What he and his wife are doing in the community. And so today we have our special guest Josiah Davis and welcome.

Josiah: 1:29

Hey, thanks for having me.

Portia: 1:31

You're welcome. I saw on Instagram yesterday, you guys did a little video with your kids, right? That it's the 10th anniversary, correct?

Josiah: 1:40

10th anniversary. Yeah we actually hiked Snake Mountain, and celebrated that we're 10 years in the business.

Portia: 1:47

Well guys, Snake Mountain is in the story of how they thought of the name Local Lion. So, Josiah you have to tell everybody how you got the name.

Josiah: 1:57

Okay, well, there's, there's sort of two stories.

Portia: 2:00

Okay.

Josiah: 2:01

There's the story that you've read. And then there's like a backstory, but, my daughter was two years old and we took a camping on to this mountain, around here called Snake Mountain. And it's just beautiful mountain, pretty rugged, a little bit remote. So I was off getting the firewood, for the campsite, and my wife was sitting at the campsite and then she thought it was me coming up to this trail. And she, and then she quickly realized, is this not me. It's a mountain lion walking up the trail. And then it kind of like turns and goes up the mountain. Right. And then not long at all, after that I come up the trail, and I had no idea. There's so quiet. I had no idea. I was walking behind the mountain lion as I came up this trail. So it was kind of terrifying with our two year old daughter and kind of awesome as well. So, we named Local Lion after the local lion up here, which is the mountain lion. We actually had some biologists show up and say, you didn't see a mountain lion. Maybe it was like kind of challenging, uh, since say that we don't know that they're up here. Well, they came back after that, and they said to us"We were on that mountain and we have confirmed tracks of a mountain lion right in the area that you said you were in." So, they came in and they essentially apologized for telling us that we couldn't have seen one and said that, you know, they were out there trying to get a sighting themselves. But anyway, yeah, we named our shop after the local lion in this region. Rare as it is, there's a lot of stories of the locals have seen them, of the mountain lion. So our symbols a mountain lion, but there's also another story we actually technically had named it before that, Local Lion. So we worked at a children's home for six years. My wife and I together were resident counselors at Crossnore Home for Children, and we told the kids that we were going to leave, and we were going to go open a donut and coffee shop, and then we asked them to help us name it. So, we actually came up with a bunch of names and then let them vote, and they chose the name Local Lion. So, we actually already had the name Local Lion, and then we saw a few months later I had the mountain lion sighting. So, we always said we're on the path to the mountain lion to do what we're meant to do. I don't normally tell like that part. I just, it's just simpler to say we named it after the regional lion, the local lion. The name was actually named by the kids at the home for children is really where we got it.

Portia: 4:16

You know, this, that was fate. That's what that was.

Josiah: 4:19

It felt like it was.

Portia: 4:21

Okay. Wait wait wait wait. I have to stop you because I can only imagine everybody's saying,"What! Your wife!" This mountain lion walks in front or walks near your wife and your two year old daughter. What did they do? I mean, I imagine they froze, but.

Josiah: 4:37

Yeah, I think they froze. Essentially, I came up after the fact. I just saw her amazed and terrified and kind of like telling me all about it. So I don't really know how she handled the moment. Other than she was stunned.

Portia: 4:50

Whoa. Wait a minute. Did the mountain lion see her?

Josiah: 4:53

Um, I don't know.

Portia: 4:55

Did she say?

Josiah: 4:55

I mean, I would have to imagine yes. I don't see how it couldn't have, cause the trail came right up. It was kind of a cross the field. I mean, it wasn't like right up on her. Okay. Okay. But, um, there was, there's sort of this like meadow that sits overlooking the mountain view that we were camping in. So I was kind of on the other side of the meadow coming up the trail and there was a little bit of distance, but yeah, still scary with the two year old especially.

Portia: 5:20

Before we talk about your cafe and all of the great things you're doing, if people who haven't been to Boone in a while, or if people have never been to Boone, and they wanted to check out some part of nature, that Trailhead, that campsite that you're talking about. If you're looking at your shop, how far is it from your shop?

Josiah: 5:39

Hum, 25 minutes. There's a mountain called, um, Elk Knob. That's a state park. It's a beautiful hike. You can see sort of across from that state park is some private land that's Snake Mountain, and we've met the owner up there, and he told us we could hike. And he said, he loved the families coming up there. It's just kind of a, more of a local spot you kinda gotta know about, but

Portia: 6:02

That's cool. People who want to go to this abide by the rules, you know, just don't walk on somebody's property and say, yeah, let's go, hiking, camping, blah, blah, blah.

Josiah: 6:11

Yeah. Elk Knob is right there. So yeah. That'd be a good spot.

Portia: 6:16

Awesome. Is it true that the Local Lion is the first drive-through and donut shop in Boone?

Josiah: 6:22

Yes. There was historically other donut shops.

Portia: 6:25

Okay.

Josiah: 6:26

So there was no donut shop when we opened our donut shop. Now we're one of three. But at the time, we were the only donut shop. It was one called Granny's Donuts when I was a kid that I don't know what happened to it. Hadn't been around for years. And so we weren't the first donut shop ever in Boone, but, um, we were the first drive-through coffee in Boone.

Portia: 6:41

Okay. So why coffee? Why, why roasting? Because you were working, you said with kids earlier, you and wife.

Josiah: 6:48

We were working with kids, and there's a few different ways to answer that question. I think that, at the heart of it, we needed a job in the high country. As we had our daughter who was two, we were working with troubled kids. And so there was complications about raising our daughter in that environment with some of the intense stuff we had dealt with through the years. So, you know, we wanted to make a change and we needed to make it. I had a History degree and a Philosophy and Religion degree, and it's a small town in the mountains and people love to come here. So the price of housing is a bit high compared to the job market. So it's not so easy just to go find a job to support a family in the high country or especially 10 years ago. So we needed a job. So then I kind of looked around and noticed that there wasn't drive-through coffee and noticed that there wasn't donuts. It was a bit strategic. We loved coffee. I worked in coffee shops. My wife had managed a coffee shop. I mean, I've been drinking coffee since I was seven or eight years old. Just loved coffee culture, loved everything about it. And so, there was that element of like wanting to build community, but then there was also the like, how are we gonna, how are we gonna make it, you know, maybe starting a business will create a path. So.

Portia: 7:58

Yeah. Seven or eight. Good. Gosh, I remember when I was seven or eight, my mom was chugging away with her coffee with no sugar and cream and, and I was like,"Oh my God!" So

Josiah: 8:09

Yeah.

Portia: 8:10

So you just needed a job, but it's really good to know that you did something strategically and you found a niche. You found that it was needed, Once it was established, how was it at first? Was it, people were just so welcoming? How was the community, since you were born in Boone? How was the community for you and, and, embracing.

Josiah: 8:31

I mean, it was amazing. We didn't have enough money to start. It was a very, very big step for us to try to go into this project. We kind of dove in and we left our job and went for it, and didn't have enough to even get open. A lot of sort of miracles that happened that made us just feel that it was the right thing. And then, I think the final miracle was all the community that came out and helped. I mean, painters that came and helped paint. We had plywood counter when we first opened. Literally, the guys at Lowe's hardware got excited about our project and then showed up to help us build our counters.

Portia: 9:04

What!

Josiah: 9:04

They had projects all day. We were just like, we're doing this, you know? And it was just like, people just came out of the woodwork to help us create this space.

Portia: 9:13

Right.

Josiah: 9:13

So that was really special. And then when we opened, we were immediately hosting the community. That's really why we're still doing it today is all the the meaning and the relationship and the culture that we get to host and be a part of. And that's been precious and wonderful and why we've succeeded, and why we want to stay in the business. I mean, honestly,

Portia: 9:34

So, the community gave to you from the start, but when COVID came around, you guys were really big within the community. I'm I imagined, because Boone is a tight knit community, everyone was helping everyone, but, I was reading that your business, you were helping the community, you've been really, really strong in the community, your business has. What did you guys do?

Josiah: 9:53

Yeah, COVID was obviously really intense. We were able to keep our drive-thru open, and we were still in business through COVID. We could have technically had our dining room open, but we chose to close it and just be careful. And we had the drive through, which helped us. It was a really intense time and the community in this case, again we were amazed at the number of people that came and shopped. And said to us, or it was clear to us that the reason they were shopping was they wanted us to still be there on the other side of COVID. Most of the time they're shopping because they want a donut or a coffee or the atmosphere. In this case they were shopping more intentionally. It was a vote of confidence in us. And so we saw that and we were amazed by that and grateful. And then we kind of noticed there was all these other businesses that couldn't get to market. Like there was a guy that had a farmers, he was a florist, and he has little flower farm, and the farmer's market wasn't open. And it's springtime and his tulips are blooming or, a potter that had been closed for a while. And just these different companies that couldn't get open. And so, we had a drive through, so what we did was we let them come into our parking lot and set up stands so you could drive through their stands, and we just set up some COVID protocols. And then we got the flowers, we sold them out the drive through window. So we kind of brought to these farmer's market businesses and these retail businesses that weren't food-related into our drive through network. And we just said, you know what there's no sort of booth fee or like charge. Let's just kind of come together. Cause that was also, people were doing for us right. They were shopping with us intentionally. That was one of the things that's probably the biggest thing we did. There was other ways, you know, we were trying to be really intentional of how do we help this community get through this trying time. It was such a special thing to just to experience community under pressure and the ways that even though we were kind of isolated, we're being there for one another, you know? And so, Yeah, that was great. They actually gave us the business of the year award. The Chamber of Commerce did in 2020 for that, and some other things, which was really humbling and something that we get to remember.

Portia: 11:48

To be honest with you, I'm not a crier, but I honestly got a little teary eyed on that. That was a great story, and I know a lot of communities within our state and the world has contributed in some way, but, it was just touching because you guys started off with humble beginnings, and you stepped up. And that was cool to think outside of the box of how can I help, using your drive-through to help other people. And, it was a safe way. I appreciate that myself. So tell us do you specifically buy your beans from one location or multiple locations? Are they fair trade or?

Josiah: 12:27

We use one importer primarily. They've just got a really good infrastructure and can give us access to a lot of different of the world's coffees. They're our primary source. We have worked with farmers directly. So, there's like a guy in Nicaragua that has a farm, and we've gotten to know him through a community member here that has a home in Nicaragua. And he's just got a great farm, a great story. So we've worked with him and there's another guy in Hondura s. So we try to build the relationships with the farmers directly and do our own importing with them, but it's honestly really difficult to do that. There's challenges around, um, I mean, essentially the amount of coffee you have to buy to make it worthwhile.

Portia: 13:10

Right.

Josiah: 13:10

You have to take this huge investment into one coffee and our customers appreciate it, but a lot of them like the Colombian, or they like the Suma, they like what they like. So, It's difficult sometimes to commit that amount of space to one coffee that we have to do to import it. So we do it, but we rely on the large importer to help us to get a wide array of coffee, cause we've got coffees from central America, Africa, Indonesia. We've got stuff that roasts well light or medium or dark. We would probably have 3000 pounds of coffee at any given time in the shop, and maybe like eight to 10 different countries represented, sometimes more. We do fair trade coffees, we do organic coffees, Rainforest Alliance coffees. There's a whole world of conversations we can have around like what the certifications mean and quality of coffee and all these, you know, but we do that. We have those with our importer and we're always looking for great coffee. And then that's part of the joy of being a small coffee roaster is finding those little micro lots, and then just being able to really dial into this, cause we're not trying to make it the same all across America. Right? We can find something that's just got a unique flavor profile and then celebrate that while it's in season from that one farmer. So, we like to do that.

Portia: 14:16

Have you visited any of the farmers?

Josiah: 14:19

I've met a farmer in America. Well, two. And, then my wife has visited a farm in Africa, but not one we buy from now. It was earlier in her life. We have not made it down to a farm ourselves yet because too busy. It's all been done mostly remote, FaceTiming or different, you know,

Portia: 14:41

Yeah, I imagine. So what about the donuts? The story is that you needed some equipment and you found some equipment, but then this equipment was from an award winning couple a that is an award winning dessert company? Tell us that story.

Josiah: 15:00

So that story is probably best told back when we were at the home for children, and I told you kind of how we needed a job. And, I didn't know what to do. We kind of felt a bit trapped, by our situation. So, I took 20 days, and I set them apart, and I said,"I'm going to seek God for direction. Like, what are we doing with our life and how are we going to make it?" And, I actually had this dream in the night, or this guy came to me in my dream. He pointed at my chest and he said,"Four months from now, an unexpected door will open in your life." I woke, up and I was being really intentional about this 20 day time period in my life. So I wrote down the dream and I said,"I don't know what that means. An unexpected door will open in four months." I was like, I wasn't expecting anything before I had this dream. So, how could it be able to expect? I just didn't make circular, you know? Well, four months to the day from the dream was my daughter's second birthday. Her getting older, was really our problem. And, she became mobile and verbal. We just wanted to get her out of that job we were working in So, four months to the day, we were getting pizza in Roan Mountain, Tennessee at Smoky Mountain Bakers. The guy that was the baker there was selling some doughnut equipment. He tells us he's selling some donut equipment. I had the idea of the coffee. I kind of noticed the niche in the community. And so I kind of was asking him about it. And he was like, well, I got this donut equipment I'll sell you today. We were having a conversation. And I said, I don't have a loan from a bank. I don't have a lease for billing. I don't know where I would start a donut business. I can't buy this today. And then he was like, well, I I've got other offers. I'm gonna sell this equipment, and I need to get it out of here. Then he opens up a chefs of California book, and it's a whole full page thing about him, picture of him, and then like three or four pages describing his bakery that had served 80 restaurants, and then it started talking about how he had won every gold medal at the harvest bowl festival for his breads and desserts in Sonoma Valley.

Portia: 16:48

Wow!

Josiah: 16:48

So they have this big festival. And, he had retired to his family land in Roan Mountain and then converted the barn into a lil pizza, into like a stone oven, like a fire oven. And he was just sort of like had this little business and kind of his retirement was family land and he was just selling some of his own equipment. And he says to me, he says, I'll train you on the donuts. And I just was like, I don't know how to do this right now. And my wife says, you had a dream that an unexpected door would open today, and donuts is totally unexpected. She said, I think we should do it. So I said, you know what? I did have a dream. I told him that. And he, he, his response was, um, his response was something like, I was a monk before I was in a band opened for Metallica or something. He's like I totally get it. And I was like, I don't really, it was like, he was like, I get that you had a dream. And I'm like, so, so he gets excited for whatever it was for him. They were so wonderful. They taught us all about the donuts. They shared their recipe, which is a 1930s recipe made from a potato, a whole potato, and they literally sold us the equipment and it helped us. They drove from Roan Mountain, Tennessee to our shop in Boone, the day we opened. They arrived at two in the morning. All this was just helping us around people. Like they had no reason to do this. It's almost equipment months before. They helped us set up our system. They were there for us that entire first morning, making donuts with us, just that, they were like, we want to see this work, and they just showed us how to do it. Laid the path out. To get there at two in the morning, I mean they essentially stayed up all night for us helping us start that place. Just really out of the kindness of their heart and um, that's where we got the doughnut recipe. To me, it was one more, you know, like, okay, this is the path we're taking, we're going to go into business, even though we really didn't have any business experience prior to this. And here we are 10 years later,

Portia: 18:37

You know what you are, right? Highly favorite brother. I mean, come on.

Josiah: 18:43

Hi. I'm grateful.

Portia: 18:45

Absolutely. So, wait a minute. You didn't have the money. Did they give you this equipment?

Josiah: 18:52

No. So, we had$4,000. We could buy the equipment. We had that. We didn't have enough money to open the business. So, essentially we bought the equipment that day, we made the decision to buy the equipment that day. And actually I said to him, I said, I don't know I'm going to do with it. Can I just leave it here? So that's what we did. We just like bought it and left it. So then the next day I went to the bank, maybe that day. I don't remember. I went straight to the bank, and I said, we want to do a donut and coffee shop. And, we started trying to figure out how to make it happen, you know? And then we started trying to find a location because now we bought this equipment. You know, and now we gotta figure out how to like how to do it somehow. And so I didn't like it, it was like almost culture shock. Then the work started and it was like, it ended up being one of the hardest thing I've ever done in my life.

Portia: 19:40

That is an inspirational story for us all who are trying to get off the ground.

Josiah: 19:46

Yeah. Yeah, we are grateful. It's a special story, I'm glad to get to share it. I'm glad you remembered it. It's fun to think about it. And, so we've gotten to stay in this place we love and host a community and, that's something that we're really grateful for.

Portia: 19:59

So how is the coffee culture in Boone? Have you seen it grown? Have you seen people who are a coffee enthusiast or they weren't, but now they are because of yourself and other coffee shops around this quaint mountainous town.

Josiah: 20:16

Well, the coffee culture bin is a little bit unique in that there's a lot of coffee roasters. So if you, if you were to go to a bigger city, you might find a lot more coffee shops and a lot less roasters because typically people don't always roast their own coffee, they just do the barista side of it. Yeah in Boone, everybody's, almost everybody's a coffee roaster that has a coffee shop. So that is increasingly true. I mean, we, when we opened, there was really two other coffee shops, both with roasters, but one wasn't exactly in Boone, and now there's four or five coffee roasters. For the town, our size, there's a lot of coffee shops in coffee roasters. We've all got our little bit of our own style to it. You know, we're a temperate rainforest. We get a lot of rain. It's very lush up in the mountains. So we get a winter. So there's just a lot of good coffee shop days. It's beautiful when you get outside, and then there's also days where it's just really nice to have that coffee. And, so I think that strengthens the culture. And then the students. We've got a wonderful University here. And so there's just a really vibrant student life and culture, and so that has a big influence as well on the coffee scene. So we've just got a strong coffee culture and a lot of coffee shops, and I know that if I needed something, I could call the coffee shop around town, and they'd supply me with cups or bags or I'd help them with some decaf coffee if they were out. We're a phone call away. So

Portia: 21:32

See, that's what that tight knit community is all about. So why start this new endeavor of chocolate and wine? I mean, I understand why it's a great pairing, but did coffee have something to do with that? That transition?

Josiah: 21:48

So in 2018 fall, and then early 2019, we were caught up in our seven year anniversary and I had kinda been a little bit, become established. We built a home, I had three kids now and the business was working and I was kind of like, okay, what do I want to do with my life? Again, I asked that question and kind of just took some time. It was like, what am I doing? Do I want to stay in business? I kind of got thrust into business a bit. And, like I said I was history and philosophy, like was my foundation. And so kinda was just looking for what I wanted to do and came to the conclusion that I wanted to do. As I got older, I wanted to stay in business, but help support other people. And so I'm just kind of add a layer of meaning to my business. I'm going to be 40 this year, so maybe 40 to 50 to 60, that those years more and more, I want it to be base camp for conquer mountain. So we took the phrase conquer your mountain, we put it on our cups and we kind of took that mountain where we'd seen the mountain lion, and we did some graphic workaround and called it conquer mountain. So we kind of upted, our marketing I suppose, or our branding. And built-in kind of like a little bit of a wisdom narrative and then said, hey, we want to be base camp for conquer mountains. And so on the one hand, it's like, when you come to our shop, we just want to support you in the great things you're doing. We want to be a space where you're encouraged, where you can have authentic conversation, where, you know, just the things that are going to be, um, where the coffee can invigorate your mind or the donut can be that sort of cheerful moment, the lighthearted moment that can kind of get you out of your funk, but in everything we're thinking, how can we help our customers conquer the mountain? And then I think, how can I help my staff that are coming through here, these college kids for, you know, two, three years, how do I help this job be something that's like a building stone for them as they go and do things in their life. So. I was like, I want to be more and more intentional about making my business a place where I support other people as I get older. And so our new business is called, Venture Chocolate and Wine Company. The real reason I did this company was I wanted to have a space to work with people around finding their life direction. These students that are maybe anxious or don't know who they are, like struggling with their identity. And it's kind of like. You know what there's, there's a direction for you. Like, you can take time if you maybe just take a space, we can come in and take time to sort that stuff out and choose a direction.

Portia: 23:59

Right.

Josiah: 24:00

And then to have somebody there to kind of say, Hey, as you choose this direction, how can we support you? And then maybe even work on helping people start their own small business. So we call it venture because we did a golden key as our symbol. So we've got, we're going to be roasting chocolate. So it's sort of a step forward in the roasting from coffee to chocolate, we're gonna be roasting the chocolate. I'll be buying from similar regions. So I can hopefully one day go to a farm somewhere and buy chocolate and coffee from the same community. So, I'm hoping to find like a community where I can be buying both my cocoa and my coffee, and really start to support that community. And then in the business invite people into this back space where they can kind of just work on launching their own direction. So, essentially I want to kind of do a mentorship as I get older and to give people maybe like the golden key to their opportunity, or maybe sow some venture capital, it'd be small, into like, their project. And, I just thought that'd be a really nice way to get older. And so once I, once I, like, once I kind of had that direction and idea, I was like, I'm going to stay in business. You know, like, cause I was young enough still to, to do something else. I could've gone back to school or I could have chosen another career path and built on what I had accomplished, but I, I sort of made this intentional decision about three years ago. Now I'm gonna stay in business, I'm a stay in this community, but I'm just going to do it in a way that's really fulfilling for me, and hopefully gives back. So, that's really where this business came from was some dreams to kind of have a space. And so we've got that there. We've got three offices, a lounge, and a conference room that connects to the chocolate roasting space. I feel like I'm rambling a little bit now.

Portia: 25:33

You are not rambling. It's such a great story, and it's very positive. Most importantly it's helping the community. It's of course helping you and your wife and your family, but it's helping the community. And that's what Cuppa Connections is about. It's about sharing those inspiring stories, those experiences that have been richer by coffee, and that's what coffee has added to your life, to your family's life and to the community's life that you serve. So in saying that I'm grateful for, man I'm grateful for this interview. This was so cool. Guys we had a little mix-up. I don't know what happened to Zoom, but it didn't happen on Wednesday, our conversation. And I was so pissed because I had a feeling that this was going to be a good conversation, a gem. So I'm grateful for Josiah to say, Hey, I'll do it. And thanks so much, man. I am so grateful. And when I come up, pleasure,

Josiah: 26:24

pleasure to meet you and discuss with you. It's I've never done anything like this.

Portia: 26:30

Well, you know, every interview that I've had or conversation that I've had on this podcast has been someone's first. And it's just a conversation between friends. Something that is free-flowing that it's hopefully informative for other people. When people want to check out a new place, Boone is a quaint mountainous town. So I gave you praise, man. Thanks a lot.

Josiah: 26:55

Thank you. Well, it's a pleasure. I love what you're doing here. It's really fun.

Portia: 26:59

Awesome. Oh, Before we go, when is the chocolate and wine going to be open?

Josiah: 27:06

Very soon? We're deep cleaning the space. We're finishing stuff up and getting a deep clean of the space. I'm hoping to be making chocolate by the end of next week in the space. We've done it off location where we make this inner space open, and we're bringing the staff in. I don't know when we're going to get operational, but, in May. At some point, we'll just feel like, we're ready. We're going to flip that open sign on.

Portia: 27:26

And Local Lion is on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter as well?

Josiah: 27:31

No, and I've never done that one. I've never learned how, but, um, you go on Facebook we're there.

Portia: 27:37

Okay. Good stuff. Well, I'm grateful. And I will visit again, just to come see you guys, and also to check out a little bit more Boone. So you have a wonderful day, my friend. I appreciate it.

Josiah: 27:50

Thank you so much. Thank you. It was a joy.

Portia: 27:53

Awesome. Bye-bye

Josiah: 27:55

bye-bye.

Portia: 27:56

I'm Portia White, and I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd like to give a special thanks to our sponsor, betterwithacupofcoffee.com. If you like what you heard, please rate and review our podcast and join us again soon at Cuppa Connections.