Cuppa Connections Ep. 23: A Modern Day David and Goliath Story; Wes Neal Wanted To Spend More Time with His Family, But He Had To Go Against Corporations To Get It.

This episode is with Wes Neal, owner of Bright Angel Bikes & Cafe, in the Grand Canyon National Park, and Eat and Run, in Flagstaff, Arizona. 

This story is one of a man who wanted a change. He wanted to spend more time with the people that matter most to him, his family. He was a river runner guide for the Grand Canyon National Park, a life that unbeknownst to the outside world, was fun but tough as hell.  Wes wanted to see his daughter grow up. But, he needed to figure out how he was going to do that.

Then, there comes the idea of opening up a bike rental business within the Grand Canyon. Now, that's not a big deal you might think. Well, it was!

He and his business partner, Kyle George, went up against the Goliaths of the world, large corporations with large bank accounts, and won!

Bright Angel Bikes & Cafe was the first small family owned business in the Grand National Park amongst a see of corporations.

Listen to Wes speak his truth.

We hope you enjoy the ride.

Transcript

Portia: 0:00

Hey guys. Welcome to Cuppa Connections. I'm Portia, and we're here coming to you from our virtual cafe, Better with a Cup of Coffee. We are savoring relationships with coffee lovers around the world and sharing their experiences that have been better with a cup of coffee.

Wes: 0:17

I Have a special guest. I always say I have a special guest, but he is truly special because this story is amazing. His name is Wes Neal and he has a business partner, Kyle George, and their story is amazing. So I have to jump right in and introduce Wes Uh, Wes, welcome. Thank you so much for coming. Hey, thank you. Glad to be here, Portia, and glad to have my cup of coffee in hand.

Portia: 0:47

Yeah. So tell us about, um, first this Bright Angel Bicycles and Cafe, and then you have another one in Flagstaff, which Bright Angels is in the Grand Canyon, and first was, what is it? Eat and Run is in Flagstaff.

Wes: 1:04

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we started Bright Angel Bicycles first as, simply a bicycle rental and guided tour service, you know, right there at Mather Point by the visitor center, on the South Rim. And then a few years later, the federal contract kind of grew and they wanted to include, uh, food and beverage services there. And Kyle, had spent years in kitchens and, to this day, uh, you are blessed if you get to go to his house for dinner cuz he will make you some of the best food you've ever had. He just, just knows his way around the kitchen. So, he um, helped to build a lot of our grab and go food menu that was to be sold up at the South Rim. And then, few years later, once we kinda got our feet under us and whatnot with a new contract in 2012, um, that included the food and bev, we opened up Eat and Run Cafe in Flagstaff, Arizona. Big part of it was a wholesale operation to kind of help serve the Canyon you know, we started kinda making some of our own grab and go uh, side of things, you know. Then it grew into a full retail shop doing delicious breakfast and lunch items. And not to mention, of course, you know, coffee, real fruit smoothies. You know, we even put coffee into smoothies.

Portia: 2:25

Oh, yes. Your story is magnificent. When I spoke to Steve. Steve guys is, uh, the manager for Bright Angels B icycles and Cafe, and Steve was telling me that you and Kyle first off started as white water rafting guides, uh, in the Grand Canyon, right?

Wes: 2:46

Mm-hmm.

Portia: 2:46

On the Colorado River. Yeah. And then, I mean, that's incredible. I forgot the name. He called you guys Rafters or, or, um, it was another name, a nickname. He affectionately,

Wes: 2:56

uh, river. River Runners.

Portia: 2:59

Yeah.

Wes: 3:00

Yeah. It was a lot of, um, long, hard days, you know, working down there. Well one lady said, I think you guys burn 8,000 calories a day. Yeah, it's quite possible cuz you know, you're just working on those boats. Then you go hiking for fun up these side trails and go see waterfalls and, and all that, you know? Then you come back and you're running back and forth on these boats, you know, just with the food and the coffee and the tents and the chairs and, you know, you name it, and then you gotta pack it all up and do it all again the next day. So.

Portia: 3:30

You started that business, right?

Wes: 3:32

No. We were employees for, um, Arizona River Runners. We became lead guides three, four years into our, career there. I ended up doing 80 river trips down Grand Canyon. Kyle's pushing close to 100.

Portia: 3:44

Oh my God.

Wes: 3:45

Yeah. Kyle would, uh, row those. beautiful. Uh, Dory Boats. It's a wooden and fiberglass boat, that just have incredible lines to them. And the paint jobs, of course, are beautiful, but, a much more technical boat to to row. You hit rocks and a wooden boat, it's a little bit different. I popped a rubber boat, so it can have its consequences too, but usually in a rubber boat you just kind of bounce off, you know, but

Portia: 4:08

Yes.

Wes: 4:08

But those wooden boats are, are a whole nother story. For your listeners, you know, there's a great story called, the, uh, Emerald Mile and, uh, it's, you know, kind of talks about those dories. It's a wooden Dory boat. It's a Grand Canyon. And, you know, that's a great story. Get a little bit of depth on that one, you know, some background and then you get to hear this story of Kenton Grua uh, this river runner who made the fastest time, in 19, what was that, 83, I think. But, yeah, really incredible story. But, uh, most of my experience was on the motorboats, which is kinda large motorized boats that's, carry 15 people, three tons of gear. Bigger boats, you know?

Portia: 4:46

Now, wait a minute. The Colorado raft, the Colorado River is strong. And when you're talk, I'm thinking whitewater rafting, I'm thinking going up and down and sloshing around. And, but I've seen those rubber boats, but are they boats where you maybe have, I don't know, five or so people in them and, and everybody's on the edge and, and people have, am I, am, is this TV that I'm thinking about or mm-hmm. That's not what you were guiding, or is it?

Wes: 5:17

Yeah, know, you got it. Yeah. It's, it's really big, world-class whitewater. For example, some of the tallest waves down there are 20 feet tall. When the water is up, you know, when they let more out during the summer for like peak, power production. Phoenix, Las Vegas, all those places need that air conditioning. So they allow that water to come out and make power. Well, when it does that, of course the water goes up, and those rapids can have 20 foot tall waves. So those big boats and even the smaller boats, they can handle it okay. And do fine. But, most of the rowing boats are like 18 foot rowing boats, you know. So when you do a rowing boat, you drop in and you're basically just kind of looking straight up. And sometimes those boats will flip that way, like you'll do everything right and you still can get flipped that way. So.

Portia: 6:03

I've heard it's exciting and dangerous. I've heard Colorado River is, um, it's a rough river. I'm sure safety is a big thing for you guys and anyone who's doing anything like that, but you obviously have to let people know how exciting, yes it is, but I'm how dangerous it can be, right?

Wes: 6:23

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So Arizona River Runners, and, you know, many of these different river companies do the best they can to help, but honestly, uh, I did 80 river trips, and I only had two people ever come off my boat. One lady out, you know, I watched her, she just, she just let go. She was riding along and she just, three little ways kind of came up and she's kinda sitting on the outside. It was a smaller rapid and she just let go.

Portia: 6:47

What?

Wes: 6:48

You know, I just jumped right there. I grabbed her. I said, you gotta hang on. So, but uh, don't let go, you know, duck, duck your head, and hit those waves hard, but she just took them right to the face and. Yeah, it's very possible to not fall off, you know, most people don't fall off. But every once in a while, of course on those rowing trips, they can be a little more exciting cuz there's, it's a smaller boat, and you can get flipped and turned and all kinds of things. But yeah, no, it's a great adventure, for sure.

Portia: 7:17

well, Arizona has so, so much to offer in general, the Grand Canyon, of course, but then Arizona, the whole as a state is just like an outdoor playground. I read that you love fishing and, of course, you still whitewater raft, right?

Wes: 7:33

I don't go a whole lot anymore, honestly. Yeah, it's funny, yo, I, I did 80 trips and I've done trips, uh, in the, on the Zambezi, uh, in Africa and then, you know, our local river here, the Verde, and, but I don't know, it was like, it was like a time of my life. And I would still go into it, but we got busy with times of life. Uh, that part of my life kind of changed and, you know, we went and did a trip, eight years ago or so on the lower part. But sometimes, you know, it's just hard getting permits. I, I have put in for permits, but, it's not easy getting some of those, uh, private boater permits. But yeah, yo, Kyle just took his daughter, last year, for her first time. I think she's 16 or something like that. So he came back with a good report. He said, I don't think she wants to become a river guide. So dodge that bullet. But, but yeah, he went down in June,and it's kind of silly hot in June. And if it rains early, you get the muddy, the river turns real muddy, which is the original term, it's with the Spanish. In 1540 when they were here, coming up from Central America, whatnot. They said, the Rio Colorado, which is like this, kind of like redish Brown. So now of course it's all dam controlled, and they would call it the Rio Verde. It's all that green algae growing on the bottom. It's makes that reflection of green, so but you know, it can still turn muddy. It's still can carry that sediment. So that's when we call it the Coffee River.

Portia: 8:57

Coffee River?

Wes: 8:58

Yeah, the Coffee River. Yeah. Looks, it looks like coffee sometimes. Just, you know, creamed cream coffee. Yeah. Flowing down.

Portia: 9:05

You have this story, we, we've gotta tell people in depth about this story because I, it almost brought me to tears. You know, not too many things bring me to tears, but it was just so endearing because so many entrepreneurs out there that have roadblocks and, sometimes we, we falter, sometimes we just keep steadfast and we keep going, you know, from our inner strength, from our higher power for what have you. And this story, guys, I have to say it was touching first and foremost of, about how you, you put your family first. You wanted to spend more time with your family because you were doing the whitewater rafting, right? and it was just taking a lot of your time. And then all of a sudden you said you, what was it? You just wanted something different to provide you with that time, with your, your family and you know, more with God or cuz I know, I read you're a God-fearing man, and I love that.

Wes: 9:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, we, uh, it's an incredible story. Yeah. I really appreciate that fact that you can appreciate that and being an entre entrepreneur. Yeah. I think, you know, maybe even a little different level of understanding there that yeah, we know it's not easy to get these ideas, these dreams, up and going. Our joke is always that, you know, it's, uh, 10% idea and 90% work. So yeah, we can't just rely on the idea, we gotta make it happen, and find ways to keep making it happen. But um, yeah, those river trips as we were talking about, I would be gone from March through, close to November, late October, and you come home, but you're, you're just in and you're out. Sometimes you're in for 12 hours and you're right back out. Sometimes you're only home for like a day or two and you're right back out. And then, I started working for a hiking company as well. Yeah, I got married and then my daughter was born in 2008. And, so I had four years or so of working down in Grand Canyon while I had a young daughter. it's a, hard thing for marriages. It's a hard thing for families. Unfortunately, there's a lot of marriages that fail of river runners. And so, you know, it's one level to have, be married and be doing it, but then, once my daughter came along, i, I missed some of her first words. I missed some of her first steps. Yeah. I loved the whole adventure of running those river trips. I love the way a boat can move on the water and the way the water smells and the sound of the, of the water.

Portia: 11:23

Right.

Wes: 11:23

But, I didn't love it as much as missing my daughter's steps and, you know, so I just started like that reality check from being like a, just a young single guy to a young married guy to all of a sudden, like a young dad. Like, this story's changing, man. Like, I need to, you know, kind of figure something else out. That, and my boss at the river company. He told me when I first started, he said, now you won't get rich doing this. I said, you know, I'm not looking to get rich. Yeah. I'm just, I'm here for the adventure. But you know, as you get married and have kids, those words started echoing. It's like, well, I don't have to be rich, but I do need to make sure we, because you know, you got some dry seasons, From October to March if you don't have work lined up, you don't have work lined up. You know, so I would do construction, I would do various different things through the the winter months to stay busy and keep some income coming in. Early on, you know, we would travel before I got married we would travel down to Mexico and go surfing. So that was the whole.

Portia: 12:15

Those were the days, I bet.

Wes: 12:17

Some of the days, you know. So things started changing quick. As you said, you know, putting our family first. I was, I'm slow. Yeah. I was born two weeks late, and so it took me four years to be like, okay, I think I need to do something different. But no, my wife is, uh, very talented. If you've been to the website and seen any of our stuff, that is all her. She's just incredible, you. As we started, as this idea, it started in a pickup truck coming back home from a river trip. I was telling Kyle about some of the stuff that was going on, and he just kinda looked over and, you know, if you know Kyle, he's just very cool calm collected. He goes, Well, if anything ever comes about that, he goes, um, just let me know. He said, I'd be interested, to, you know, look more into that. It started cooking up. I started kind of putting out some feelers for, just some capital, started writing up some ideas. And, I kind of forgot about that conversation. I was talking to Kyle about something else and he goes, I was serious, you know, he goes, let's do this bike thing. He goes, I'll join in and help ya. So sure enough, yeah, he was serious and we jumped in and started working together, and I had to figure out a way to get some funding for it. Cause you had to buy a whole fleet of bikes and all the stuff to get going. It was on a one season permit.

Portia: 13:30

They give you just one season.

Wes: 13:34

Oh man. It was such, it was a real, roll the dice as they say. Like, here we go. Is this gonna work? And we had no data, no sales data, nothing like that to work off of. We didn't know even how many bikes we should actually have, like what sounded right. You know, all those little questions, you know, and then none of the, folks wanted to even hardly work with us. We were just basically working out of a tin shed. So most of these big bike companies are like, no, we need to have brick and mortar and be a little more of a serious operation. Yeah. And so HARO, bike company.

Portia: 14:06

What's the name again?

Wes: 14:08

H a r o. HARO or HARO.

Portia: 14:10

Okay.

Wes: 14:10

However, pronounce it. They are kind of more geared in these days with like BMX style bikes. And even the line of bikes that we purchased back in 2010, they've actually ch, you know, put into like a different name. It's like Dell Soul now or something. Kinda like a geared comfort cruiser bicycle. But yeah, most of them wouldn't hardly work with us. So yeah, they took a chance on us. So we bought 75 bikes and, built'em up and, we're scared to death.

Portia: 14:34

God, I can imagine. I gotta tell the people. I, I never forget the feeling I had when I was reading about, you guys, You worked 12 hours, for six weeks nonstop trying to come up with um, a bid. And it was a lady that helped you with, mm-hmm. Government bidding that really knew a lot about that. And then with your faith, um, you guys put in a lot of hard work. But then that's not the thing that I, I really noticed. We as entrepreneurs, we're already fighting our demons.

Wes: 15:09

Sure.

Portia: 15:09

We don't need to have anybody else be our, our demonn cause we have enough. But then you have other people, that was in this Grand Canyon community, uh, who were telling you guys, oh no, you won't get this cuz you're going up against these mega corporations and you're this small family business. You don't have capital. They've got million dollars of capital to do advertisement to buy products. They told you no. They were like, nah, you can't make this. But then you guys just kept plugging. That's the beautiful thing about this story is that you just kept plugging, you gave it all you got. It's a saying that I always like to say and I said it to my friend today. It's begin where you are, do what you can and leave the results to God. It's like once you do your best, And it seems like that's what you guys did, your best, and just select the results out there. What did you think about the, the naysayers? I mean, What'd you think?

Wes: 16:10

Yeah, we would hear'em say that. Even on like, some of like the public touring that the government does on any of these contracts, that they put out. They invite anybody wants to apply and you kinda get on this bus together and you kinda just tour and, and look at the sites. It's a part of what their whole contract thing is. That's when I first started kinda meeting these Nationwide companies that were bidding on it. and actually, uh, there was two global companies that bid on it. But, it was interesting. We were respectful of course, you know, of who we were meeting and, and greeting that day. And then, a couple of the ideas, speaking of coffee on your theme of your show here, better with a cup of coffee. He was talking about doing like this, like liquid kind of coffee and, you know, we could tell like their approach was just for the margins. It wasn't towards quality, and, um, giving that good espresso that we all love, at such a grand place as Grand Canyon. it was gonna be like, kind of dummied down. And so, it was like a little bit of glimmer hope. He was gonna ask about, different things about bike mechanics and how we get people. I said, you know, I think we got a better chance than we might realize here. But, you know, a lot of people said, you'll never be able to do espresso there. Just do the machines and, cause it is, you get like big commercial operations in these big kitchens, it's geared for volume and, making it, you know, like we get at your local cafe just was kind of unthinkable to them. Like, they were thinking the other way, like, oh, you can't satisfy that crowd with that type of deal. So, anyways, you know, it just was interesting just the approaches that we saw. So, yeah. We had such focus, and we just put everything into it, committed a hundred percent. and just really to look back. There's always gonna be naysayers. All through scripture. All through poetry. All through everything. That's just, it's part of life, you know, and I think it's how we. How we approach it. Put God first, is what we try to do. Right. And then, like you said, let the pieces fall. Because, we want his will in our life. So my will, my motive was to get closer to home, like you said. I figured out real quick, well, sorry, not real quick. It took me four years. But, I was a slow learner to realize that, hey, I do wanna be home more than this adventure thing. But, it's also all I knew to do at the time. I just didn't have much of a skillset beyond that, uh, or so I thought. So I kinda of got down that rut of Grand Canyon, which it does trap people. I've seen a lot of people just kinda get trapped, even though they wanna move on in their.

Portia: 18:41

But why is that though?

Wes: 18:42

It's a humanism. I think. It's you've been doing this one thing. And I think it's a perspective of like, this is who I am. It's an identity.

Portia: 18:51

It's all I know.

Wes: 18:52

Yeah. I think it's this, maybe people don't know how to apply what they're doing down there.

Portia: 18:58

Right.

Wes: 18:59

Yeah. They say, well, I what do you mean I could go do something else? Or they just don't respect it, to do something else. Cuz I had that experience myself. Cuz when we first started to try to move away from the river, we opened up a van based tour program.

Portia: 19:13

Van based?

Wes: 19:15

So yeah, just picking people up like hotels here in Flagstaff or Williams, Sedona, I even went over to Las Vegas one time. Doing like, interpretive, guided day hikes, where you just kinda have people in inside the van. You pick'em up. You make'em lunch. It's a service for people who just kind of don't know where to go, don't know, you know what to do. And so, it's like, yeah, well let's, let's get a, guided tour. We're gonna learn more, and they'll take us to those spots that are nice and good. Cuz it not, as you look up that map of Grand Canyon, it's like, it intimidates some people. Like, which one is the best? And yeah. And so it's real simple because they're all the best. So I think people just get stuck in that. Some people I've seen get out of it. But, the river community has realized it's an issue, and has incredible resources for people. Um, unfortunately years ago there was a guy named, uh, Curtis, but his nickname was The Whale. He's always on these boats, by water, and they just called him the whale.

Portia: 20:08

Right?

Wes: 20:08

And so, Curtis just got stuck in that trap. And then, there's used to be, um, a fair bit of alcoholism down on that river community and, some light drug use and. Yeah, it's just, you know, it's humans as well, you know, it's, you know,

Portia: 20:23

It's, it's, I'm sorry, but I'm not judging when I, when I, when I question that, it's just I have a different perspective now that I'm talking to you about the real life of a rafter or someone who works within the Grand Canyon. And, it's a serious commitment to the Grand Canyon, Grand Canyon National Park. But you have this perception of it's just a happy-go-lucky job. And it's like, oh wow, I'm here and, and what can harm me? Or because I'm outdoors and I'm having fun and I'm free and however naive I sound, but I'm sure there are other people, when they hear this episode, they will think like that. It's like, really there's all of these struggles like that everyone else has in their lives, you know? Mm-hmm. That you guys have, it's quite fascinating.

Wes: 21:15

Yeah. I think the service industry, let's just kind of zoom out and look at that as a whole. You have two different dynamics meeting. You have one group of people who are on vacation and they've worked hard and for that time there's a part of their brain that just turns off. It's like, I'm on vacay, and I'm gonna enjoy my time with my, you know, my family and whatnot. Yeah. Well then, there's a different dynamic of the people that are there serving, and working to make sure that those river trips go smoothly, those bike trips go smoothly, those van trips, you know, it's like all the little, the insurance, the maintenance on the vehicles, the maintenance on the boats, the maintenance on the bikes. And then this training that goes into it. And so, it's a funny meeting of different experiences. you know, but, um, you know, being out in the elements, it's the other thing, you know, it's like, by the time the river season's kind of halfway through into the later season, It's 102. It's just a hundred and five, 90, 95. It's all those temperatures that it just kind of wears on you. And the physical part of it, is just intense.

Portia: 22:21

Wow.

Wes: 22:21

Dehydration is a factor. Getting your right calories. And so, just like any type of job, when the river runners get done with the day, they wanna let the steam off a little bit, you know? And so, a lot of times, if you're not grounded in a faith, which for the first four years I worked down there, so, it was, um, nine seasons total. But for the first four seasons, I was just there kind of out for the adventure and the party. Cuz you know, you you get that dynamic of they don't, the other people there that hang out and relax and party. And so you, you know, there's a little bit of blend there.

Portia: 22:53

Mm-hmm.

Wes: 22:54

And so, I was some of the wildest of them all, you know, and it's a wild, it's a wild place. It just allows for a wild kind of a perspective and an attitude. Still within the package. And every once in a while yeah, something would pop out. But yeah, most people can manage it. But going back to Whale, there's actually a group now called the Whale Foundation because unfortunately Curtis, uh, he got stuck. He just could never do anything else with his life, and he could have,but he just kinda got stuck in that mentality that he couldn't, and, you know, all that serving, all that different stuff just kinda got the better of him, and he ended up taking his own life. And so, it was a real wake up call to the community to say, we got some problems here. We need to understand what are these demons that are. Because here, you know, like you said, it's, you're down in one of the most beautiful places. Mm-hmm. And it's a happy-go-lucky job, but it gets back to personality and how you handle it.

Portia: 23:53

It seems like Curtis, aka the Whale, was someone who was well known and loved and for him to take his own life, I mean, that's a serious thing. Yeah. I imagine that would be a wake up call for everyone to say, hey, this is an emergency. We can't keep hiding that there are some serious things with our job that our workers go through. Right. So I What advice, you know, because we're, you and I are just everyday people, you know, and there's everyday people out there. What advice would you give them, um, because you've been in the trenches, you know, it's a different, uh, industry, but you've still been in the trenches. What advice would you give people who are pretty much exhausted from their jobs. Um, and they don't feel like there's a way out. What would you say?

Wes: 24:43

Hmm. Be resourceful.

Portia: 24:46

Hmm.

Wes: 24:47

For whatever reason, that little saying helped me out so much because when I would come up to a, a block, something that I didn't know how to do, I would, at first, go through that human side, I'd like, oh man, yeah, okay, well how are we gonna do this? And, what's the plan? You know, like, we just hit this stop. Mm-hmm. How are we gonna get around the stop? You know, this little continued bubble down inside was like, there's help out there. Be resource. Go find the help. Go learn the thing. You know, and that's where you mentioned our friend who helped us.It's like the right people at the right time will come together. And so she was incredible. Ruth Anne is her name. But her and her husband, you know, it's just that experience. Those mentors at the right time. And she had been a guide herself. You can look up her story, you know, uh, there's a publication called, The Boatman's Quarterly Review. But, you know, got into river running and doing the river thing and married a river runner, John. And those are some of the best people ever. But she just knew that we needed, things like, risk management was not a word that was in my vocabulary or a phrase. Like, what, you know.

Portia: 25:54

What is this?

Wes: 25:55

You don't. You know, environmental management, like what? You know. What are you talking about? Employee handbooks, oh, you mean those aren't just for, you know, um, you know.

Portia: 26:05

Those are for corporations. What? What are you talking about?

Wes: 26:09

Exactly. So all those little things. Yeah. She just said, you don't have this. We had some like rules and regs and, you know, some waivers and stuff. Yeah. But, as far as like for a bigger program. Um, housing, you know, cause we have to house many of our employees.

Portia: 26:22

Do you?

Wes: 26:23

Oh yeah.

Portia: 26:24

How is? Okay. People live on the outskirts of the Grand Canyon, right?

Wes: 26:32

Uh, correct. Yeah. Well, you know, right there inside the park. So when you visited and you were, you stayed at the Thunderbird Lodge. You were less than a mile away from employee housing. It's just directly to the south of you and there's a magic of all those trees, you know, just kinda things blend in. You just can't see it, but some people still get lost back in all the roads that Zigzag back there and you whatnot. But, it's almost 3000 people that will live inside the, out the national park there. And that's kinda some of that magic, what we were just talking about. There's a dynamic of a group of people who are coming there just to enjoy and relax and get close to nature. And then there's a whole group of people that live there that say, we're gonna help make this happen for you. But they gotta live there, cuz you drove there. It's in the middle of nowhere.

Portia: 27:16

It's in the middle of nowhere. It's true. Yeah. I was surprised. I haven't driven to the Grand Canyon since I was, I dunno, back in 2000 with my family. And yeah, there's really not much until you get to the Grand Canyon. When I called, I called and I spoke to, and Steve called me back and he was like, yeah, this is a real, a real busy time for us right now. And then you sent me an email and, and you're, thank you so much again for, for, you know, for being on the show because you are super busy, but it's cold up there. I'm a summer baby, okay. I love heat, so I'm not going anywhere that's cold. But of course there's so many activities all through Arizona, but it's, how is it so busy? It's like when I was there in the summer, it was packed, like people from all over the world. So there are still people going to the Grand Canyon at all times of the year like that? Uh, yeah. The wintertime is of course quite a bit slower. During that quote unquote dead of winter, January, February. But, Christmas is fairly busy, cause a lot of it just rotates around vacations. Like, kids school vacation. Mm-hmm.

Wes: 28:31

So that's when we'll see these upticks. Mm-hmm. Um, but then, there's a real magic of seeing the canyon and certain lights with snow on it. And so, that's a big photographic draw. But most of the time,it's incredible. It's one of the natural wonders. And, It's remote. It's exposed. It's just rugged. I mean, it goes for 277 miles. Like basically from what you could look at, you saw roughly 70 miles of that. But.

Portia: 28:57

Wow.

Wes: 28:57

There's so much of that canyon that people just love to explore. But, it's a spiritual experience.

Portia: 29:03

I've heard that too. Yes. And I've heard that. Is there like this Native American influence within the Grand Canyon? I'm, so, I'm always so curious about that, especially, I don't know, especially when I drove through New Mexico and Arizona, and I just felt a huge Native American presence. What, are you familiar with the culture within the Grand Canyon? Because I know on the West Rim, uh, isn't the West Rim on the native, native American territory or mm-hmm. And.

Wes: 29:33

Well, technically originally all of it, of course.

Portia: 29:35

Yeah.

Wes: 29:36

Originally. But, I think you're speaking of the, there's two tribes over the Western side, the Havasupai and the Hualapai. So, it's the people of the Bluegreen waters and the people of the tall pines over there. But, I think there's eight total. This number kind of changes a little bit, so forgive me if I'm wrong, but it's like eight. I have also heard 11. But, depends on if you combine some of the different groups of Paiutes or not. There's a quite a collection of native peoples who have a very spiritual connection to Grand Canyon. So one of the ones that's most striking is the Hopi, H O P I. Their full name is the Hopi sinom, and it means the peaceful people. And, yeah, they have a very incredible connection with Grand Canyon. They believe that everything underneath the, below the REM of Grand Canyon is the underworld, and the natural environment brings the rain from the west coast off the ocean, over land from west to east. Well, their land is east of Grand Canyon, and it's believed that they migrated north from Mexico, uh, region, you know, jungle regions. Their language is traced back to a Udo aztecan language language. Mm-hmm. And, they came north looking for the, uh, what they call Cipapuie. It's basically just a portal from the third world into what is now. They believe that they're in the fourth world, huh. And so, they found it basically what it is big spring that comes up and, uh, one of the big side canyons to the Grand. It's called the little Colorado river gorge or canyon. But a, has this kind of flowing spring that comes out year round. Well, the water's full of, limestone, and so it's hard water. And, this spring just builds up this big dome shaped spring. And, that is where they believe they emerged from the third world into this fourth world. And.

Portia: 31:34

Interesting.

Wes: 31:34

So their deity, Masao, and the great creator told them once they journeyed up to find us to stay, and gave them a way of life, how to respect the land. They're the world's best dry land farmers. They grew these little tiny little ears of corn. You know, we're used to these big yellow, summertime. And their ears of corn are just tiny little ears of corn. But, it's all a very spiritual meaning to, to live simply. Live with the land, to respect one another. Respect the land. Don't Use more than what you need, you know.

Portia: 32:06

Right.

Wes: 32:07

You've been given everything you need. I, I've gone out and I've helped'em plant before, which is a real honor, but it's hot. It's like dry, sandy areas that they're farming, corn and squash and melons and these different things and. But they know how to use the land and bring the seeps, you know, they'll plant by the edge of the seeps to the washes, and it's a really incredible study to watch how they, how they farm.

Portia: 32:28

I bet that was a, a very, profound experience for you to do, to see that.

Wes: 32:33

Yeah. No, learned a lot. Still learning a lot. I still read books on the Hopi. And, they believe that, this area, this four corners area, they believe in particular that their land, just east of Grand Canyon, is the center of the universe. That all, all things rotate around them. You can go look up Hopi prophecies and whatnot. It's actually kinda striking, uh, some of the things that have come to pass. But, um, yeah, lovely people. Very respectful. And, we get to work with, uh, one Hopi lady at Flagstaff here, so she's.

Portia: 33:04

Oh, with your, she's great. Your other business. Eat and run?

Wes: 33:07

Yeah.

Portia: 33:08

Oh, very lovely. I end our conversations with a couple of things. One thing is, what advice would you give entrepreneurs who have this drive?

Wes: 33:21

There's a time for all. Thanks. Yeah. If I had to say this, I know for me, we could have a discussion about personality types. Right?

Portia: 33:29

Right.

Wes: 33:29

There's the people in the world that are just dialed. They know what they want. They start lining it up, and they can get it dialed and figured out. But then, there's those of us who are. I'm, I'm a little bit of a dreamer, a little bit of a wanderer. I was born two weeks late. So, it just kind of set a pattern. Like, my brother, we go to school, we're always late, you know, he's like, ah, man, we're always late. So, but there comes a time and that's why I say that, you know, that there's a time for all things is, cuz eventually for me, I had to wake up to those responsibilities and accountabilities. Um, but yet not lose your love for whatever you're into, whatever that passion might be, you know?

Portia: 34:09

Right.

Wes: 34:10

Um, so there's finding that balance is so key. And, I think you can't force it. Cause you know, I looked down that list, like after high school, I looked down that list of college degrees and I looked at business and I was like, no way. I'll never do that. Be willing to allow changes. Be flexible too. Cause I had this whole identity, you know, outdoors, and like business, like I'll never be in business, you know?

Portia: 34:36

I was like, what is that?

Wes: 34:37

And then it's, yeah, it started happening and I was like, oh no, I'm gonna have to eat my words. But also, my understanding grew too. I was like, okay, I get why people get into it cuz it becomes its own living thing. Be willing to, to grow, with the changes that come in, and don't put a period on anything. Put a comma on the end of things. And then that way, it'll allow you to continue the sentence, continue the narrative of your life and your story, you know.

Portia: 35:07

It hurts you when you do have that period, you know, you're not flexible with the times. So where can people find you? I mean, there's, you, your, your hands are in a lot of pies. Mm-hmm. What are you on social media? You are on Facebook, Instagram? We do have a facebook page for the business. We do have Instagram, which is, I guess, connected. So thankfully my wife, she can help navigate all that, so she, she puts up some, you know, different things, whatnot. Okay. So you have Facebook, Instagram for Eat and Run, and then you have one for Bright Angels Bicycles and Cafe. Very nice.

Wes: 35:48

Yeah. Yeah. But, of course Trip Advisor. We have a few videos on YouTube. That's kind of where to find us, and then, of course, if you do a search, keyword searches of things to do at Grand Canyon and all that kind of stuff, more specifically, of course, biking at Grand Canyon, we're gonna come up pretty quick.

Portia: 36:03

Mm-hmm.

Wes: 36:03

Uh, there are two companies now, there's one that's outside the park. Ever since e-bikes became available, that ride from outside the park is eight miles from the airport where they meet people there. But, people have to ride eight miles in on a e-bike just to get to Grand Canyon and then they can ride along the rim and then all the way back. So those bikes are pretty incredible that they can do that. But, we have e-bikes inside the park. So they are GC bikes, and then, we are Bright Angel Bicycles.

Portia: 36:33

Okay.

Wes: 36:33

But, um, yeah.

Portia: 36:34

Well I have to tell you guys, Wes and Kyle have done something amazing along with Sarah. Please go check out their website. It is beautiful. Sarah has done a wonderful job. And, just to say, your reviews and your results speak for themselves. You, what is it, the 10th year in a row that you have the Trip Advisor Award for the Travelers Choice destination? That's just not even the United States. That's all over the, from all over the world that people's leave reviews. The business is wouldn't be as great without the wonderful employees and the people that's working with Wes and Kyle. But, it starts at the top and these two gentlemen are the real deal. It's just wonderful talking to you. I'm so grateful.

Wes: 37:22

Thank you. Yeah, no, you nailed it. We sure couldn't do it without everybody that helps us out each and every day.

Portia: 37:28

Yeah.

Wes: 37:28

Incredible teams, people that are just as passionate about Grand Canyon and, and helping people to learn about Grand Canyon and have a great experience there, is what's so incredible.

Portia: 37:37

You guys seem, you're just good down home people. I appreciate that.

Wes: 37:42

Thank you. And, uh, you nailed it down. That's what we would say too. We invite all your listeners, come to Grand Canyon. If you wanna get on a bike, come see us. We do have the best coffee in the park.

Portia: 37:52

I've heard.

Wes: 37:52

We're biased, but come experience Grand Canyon, and see for yourself the natural wonder that we are so blessed to have in our backyard. Yeah. Next time you're up, you guys just let me know. We'll, we'll give you a tour. We'll dive deep into all that interp.

Portia: 38:06

Absolutely. Thank you so much.

Wes: 38:08

There's a whole story there that's great.

Portia: 38:09

Please say hello to Steve. He's hilarious. Steve is the man.

Wes: 38:15

Yeah, he, that's awesome cuz uh, he is the man, but, uh, yeah. He'll get a kick outta you saying that. So see, I told you, I told you.

Portia: 38:27

All right, well you have a great day and be blessed.

Wes: 38:29

All right, Portia. Yeah. Yeah. You'll be blessed too. And thank you for the invite. We appreciate it. You're welcome. You're welcome. Bye. Bye.

Portia: 38:37

I'm Portia White, and I hope you've enjoyed today's conversation. I'd like to give a special thanks to our sponsor betterwithacupofcoffee.com. If you want to be our guest on our show, email me at cuppaconnections@gmail.com. And if you liked what you heard, please write and review our podcast. And, join us again soon on Cuppa Connections.